Evening talk and discussion with HE José Mauricio Bustani
Our Chairman Sir Ronald Halstead opened the meeting and Ambassador Bustani replied expressing his gratitude for this opportunity to share his views. He welcomed this informal dialogue [he spoke without notes for about an hour] about what his government is doing about external relations.
President Lula da Silva comes from a very low class and is extremely intelligent. He has succeeded through dialogue to fix social inequalities in particular. Brazil is the fourth largest country in the world and the south is where wealth is concentrated; the north is far less developed. The challenge is to try and sort out Brazil and with its many vested interested it is very difficult.
Lula came to power in 1993 with one understanding: dialogue and respect for traditions were paramount. He focussed on US relations and Europe. Secondary interests in Africa and Asia would be considered on an ad-hoc basis. 25% of trade is with the US and 25% with the EU; the rest is principally with other countries in South America and Asia.
One of Brazil’s great concerns is for the environment but above all is its concern for the unity of South America. Mercosur – the South American common market – is the fourth largest economic entity worldwide. This trade bloc was created in 1991 by Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay (Venezuela has now also joined). Mercosur deals with issues such as welfare, economic and political co-ordination. Brazil is very influential as the economy of of São Paulo is more important than the Argentine economy as a whole.
The President would like more of a union with all South American countries, but physical integration is a problem for Brazil and its neighbours – environmentally speaking it’s a challenge. In December 2004 a South American Association was formed, CASA (South American Community of Nations). The South American heads of State reaffirmed:
the need to ensure better standards of living and economic development for their peoples, which should be understood within an integral approach which comprises the guarantee of a fair and balanced income distribution, access to education, social cohesion and inclusion, as well as the preservation of the environment and the promotion of sustainable development;
Brazil looks to the UK for ideas on Public Private Partnerships (PPP)
all we do is inspired by what you do here – with schools, hospital etc in the UK
Brazil has a very good dialogue with the US and also with the EU. Africa also has good relations with Brazil and the President has visited many countries in Africa, especially the Portuguese-speaking ones.
Population
People of many different extractions in Brazil - it has the second largest number of Japanese. 10% of Brazilian Congress members have an Arabic name – mainly Lebanese. There is an enormous population of Brazilian Jews. There is no difficulty in the relationship with Jews and Arabs. Brazil is a real melting pot – people feel Brazilian.
Ambassador Bustani’s own grandmother herself was Indian, from a tribe – you learn to be tolerant he said, and it gives you a different way of looking at life – a different way of looking at the Middle East. He is also part Arab.
Foreign Relations
Relations with India and China are moving forward enormously. Brazil is the most important soya bean producer – also important steel and beef exporter.
Trade relations are opening up with Russia and there is now also a political dialogue.
In Brazil there is no case of terrorism
it is not in our nature: being a country of dialogue, we believe we can bring people together.
Brazil is considered a political partner by the UK.
Brazil has a population of 200 million. They have important multilateral relations with their neighbours and contribute to them in many ways. Brazilians have a perception that they can help solve international problems.
UN
The Security Council has expanded to include more countries – it now requires reform. In many ways it is a stale organisation.
The UN is what countries want it to be – issues of support and respect of structure. Being involved can take an enormous toll on you – psychologically. The hands of the Director General are tied and it is very difficult to make progress.
Brazil is a supporter of the UN but feels that if it is stale it becomes corrupt. The UK was always a great support.
Nuclear Energy
Brazil has a system of non-proliferation – has a safeguard so as not to lead to weapons.
The country, being so huge, could face an energy supply crisis in the medium term, therefore uranium reserves have been developed
Brazil is now an emerging power – you must read the international press very carefully
The ethanol programme is a success and different types of fuel are being tested. A nuclear energy plant is being developed that is accident-proof (quality control didn’t exist in Russia, cf Chernobyl). Nuclear energy can be very safe and environmentally friendly. There is a good case for going back to nuclear energy
A time of discussion followed including the latest political crisis in Congress involving someone who was ‘not very psychologically balanced’ but who has damaged the President’s standing (his support was at 70% but now stands at 53%, which is still high). Lula’s Party has always been very ethical and very democratic and is the cleanest party among the innumerable parties in Congress. The problems rest with the Brazilian elite who never accepted Lula: it is a fact of life that he was a shoe shiner, and there are pockets of resistance to this – he has no university degree but has a beauty of character that makes him admirable. He has a mission and a vision for Brazil.